you are conflating disparate stances I've taken, though. Keep in mind I think people who believe what the Koran says, or the Torah, or whatever, are equally retarded. Atheists should feel superior to them all, simply because they have eliminated the crutch and actually decided to use their own brains. However, I agree that I don't like it when people are painted by a broad brush, so I'll cede that there are probably religious people who have branched out of their own accord...but then I must highlight that they are hypocritical at best, because they take issue with some religious stances but still accept the overall premise. Can't have it both ways, it is disingenuous.Originally Posted by kevinsmith
I know you were away from the forums for a bit, but take a look at some of my prior posts in this thread. I showed that not all religious people are voting to remove people's rights. In fact, I proved that it would appear, at least in some places, that very few religious people vote to remove people's rights. I cited the example that a little more than 60 percent of people in Massachusetts identify themselves as religious, and 80 some odd percent of the state is in favor of keeping gay marriage legal, indicating that a slim number of those religious people apparently aren't in favor of gay marriage, one of the most common rights in question in this debate.
I also find it rather interesting that on the one hand you have no problem lumping religion as the root issue of something like say, abortion critics, yet if anyone mentions anything about Islam and the link to terrorism then you respond with immediate sarcasm to prevent anyone from generalizing that population (rightfully so, not all followers of Islam are terrorists by any means). But you have no problem lumping anyone with faith in to a group of morons who can barely go throughout the day without drooling on their ever-present bibles. Blaming religion for people who don't like abortion yet giving it a free pass when it's used in the name of killing is odd.
OR, we could go with the middle ground and not blame all religion but the people who warp teachings to their own small-minded goals. Nah, it's more fun to blame the gun than the person responsible for the crime and make fun of all religious people because it's so much FUN to feel superior to someone because of their cultural differences.
Religion is like pregnancy...you either are or you aren't. You can't be religious in moderation, because then you aren't following the very tenets of the thing you claim to believe. An example of this are the Christmas and Easter Christians. Just fucking stay home and get drunk; your supposed god is pissed that you half ass it anyway. Either you go every weekend or you stop. Don't just go to make your guilt go away.
Reasonable religious people know that what's in the books that others take as gospel, pun intended, is flawed due to the nature that A)They're written by man and only a fool thinks any man is capable of perfection or knows all and B) That the things have been translated and retranslated and reretranslated so many times that it's a jumble.
The main idea that your average faithful person, someone whom you may not even know they are religious because they're not the bible thumpers that everyone pictures when you think of a religious person, attempts to follow is the simple stuff: Don't lie, don't steal, don't cheat etc. Essentially, don't be an asshole. It's sad that a lot of people forget that basic message.
It's amazing how I can be reminded several times in a day of why a stereotype exists, and in the same day, see examples that prove the stereotype wrong. This is true of all stereotypes, by the way. At a recent conference, the state's tourism board unveiled their new documentary focusing on the lives of several residents that typify what people expect of a Californian, but also shatter several preconceived notions as well. One woman was interesting. On one hand, she looked the part. She is a surfer, and was the first woman to surf the Mavericks and one half of the only married couple to surf the Mavericks. And in a total contradiction of what anyone would expect by looking at her, she's a PHD chemist. Well, was a chemist, just took a position as a professor. Then to add yet another layer of seemingly contradictory traits, her and her family are religious; praying before each meal etc.
Just because someone is religious doesn't mean they are incapable of logical thought. Often times, it just means that they believe a higher power is behind the scientific processes that shape our universe.
Are you (general you, not you specifically) more logical than many other religious people? Sure, quite possibly. But beware a sense of superiority that becomes further strengthened when like-minded individuals gather in ever growing groups. What may start out as well intentioned actions can quickly turn in to something less appealing, all rationalized by that sense of superiority. A lot of religious atrocities started that way, as people believed their own PR.
you make some good points kevin but i think belief in a higher power is completely different from belief in an ancient religion, and the only reason that people make the jump from point a to point b is because religion quenches man's thirst for symbolic truth.
so the question becomes what role these ancient traditions actually have in the coming age of science? if the priority is on the latter then it looks to me like an increasingly diminished role.
politics is like trying to screw a cat in the ass
Don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal, etc, are rules that can be attained through simple thought exercise, as well.
However, your points are valid, it is just that I don't need it. I like reggie's response about higher power vs ancient religion. I'll gladly entertain the thought of their possibly being a higher power, and will not begrudge anyone who gets to that conclusion. However, adherence to dietary guidelines written in the time of pharaohs is just stupid (keeping kosher).
Too many Christians have forgotten the "judge not lest ye be judged" aspects of their bible. Many atheists seem to have ignored this philosophy as well, though. Sure, keeping kosher may seem retarded to you, but what does it matter?
That's cool you don't need it, and I don't think everyone needs to have it. It just goes back to my very initial point I've been making for some time, some people who hate the judgmental nature of some religious followers tend to display that very same behavior back towards religious people.
I think it's just that atheists finally are able to judge back after decades, if not centuries, of being judged (by judged, I mean killed, tortured, harassed and marginalized).
Ah, so it's not equality you're interested in, it's payback. Gocha.
I recall a discussion similar to this in another thread not too long ago...
Not payback. I just find it pretty funny how religious people bitch about atheists being judgmental after centuries of religious people literally harming others with their beliefs. Just sayin'.
on the flip side to that, religion also gave rise to a good portion of the modern 'humanist' ideals we hold dear.
I know, I hate it when people don't think two wrongs make a right!
1 or the other of the first two are correct.It's trivializing someone's belief. Real tolerant.
Asshole bible thumper: Thinks anyone who doesn't believe like them is less of a person than themselves because they're a heathen.
Asshole atheist: Thinks anyone who believes at all is less of a person than themselves because they're not as smart/logical.
Normal person: Live and let live. Who cares what you believe/don't believe. Just let it go either way.
#3, these don't exist. Anecdotally, I've had dozens of theists either verbally attack me or offer me pity and claims that they will convert me. I have not evangelized Atheism myself, and have not met a theists who has been accosted by one such. I generally keep my beliefs to myself, it's not "safe" to be openly atheististic is most situations.
and...when Christians are the most hated belief system in the country, then maybe all their whining will be valid.
This isn't new. Every year they put this billboard up in Manhattan:
Muslims seem a bit more sensitive about these things. I give it a week before it's vandalized.
HA!!! most likely by a person that considers themself a Christian. OH the irony! If it's spray painted then you know a Christian did it....if it's blown up, blame it on the Muslims.
R.E.H. "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." (The Tower of the Elephant)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
