now lets stay in a modern concept since we're talking about citizens with full citizenship rights, compared to blacks in post civil war america.
since mass immigration started here, I have yet to see minorities conform to the majority, I've seen politicians bend over backwards to please minorities.
we're at a crisis point in the uk now, alot of our majority cities have become divided by religion and race, especially in london which this mug is running for.
I see politicians obsessed with getting people of minority backgrounds into public office, england flags being banned as their racist. infact, I do not even need to go on, the list is endless.
we got primiary schools where there are fucking over 40 difference languages spoken, consequently these schools have started to massively fail in the quality of education they provide.
I just figured someone with an American flag for an avatar and with so much knowledge about our country would be able to consider somewhere other than the UK when making a statement about never seeing the majority impose its will on the minority.
military intelligence - two words combined that can't make sense
and can I have a real response please to what I said please.
since the 1960s when people other than whites started to get full citizenship in america, you tell me then. The way america has gone, it seems that the majoriy keep getting dicked over to please the minority.
Basically, people like you will sit and scream about how everyone is different while other people try to actually figure out how to make that work in a system. Of course everyone is different, but that does not mean just and sound systems can't be found.Originally Posted by danimal
It's ok, though, we need folks like you pointing out the obvious, if only to reinforce the efforts of people who are actually doing something.
Originally Posted by Aluminum
I'm not comparing the people, but the circumstance where newcomers dispossess the natives.
The flaw among Western people is that today they do not fight for their interests. What happened in the past was simply the law of the jungle, and characteristic of all civilizations at the time: conquer, or be conquered. That law exists today, now and forever, and we ignore it at our peril.Unless you are actually supporting what was done to Native Americans, this is actually an example of a flaw in Western Civilization.
Had the White Man been forced out by the Indians, and thus their way of life maintained, Native Americans might have avoided those problems along with controlling the western hemisphere.Other flaws include an epidemic obesity and alcoholism that extends well beyond the Native American population.
Of course it doesn't, but that isn't the issue. These are words of caution to Europeans to avoid the fate of the Indians.Also, they were killed, slaughtered. These were individuals, some of their relatives surviving doesn't make up for it.
Chalupa, as to your question..
Pretty transparent.Originally Posted by chalupa
Basically, people like you will sit and scream about how everyone is different while other people try to actually figure out how to make that work in a system. Of course everyone is different, but that does not mean just and sound systems can't be found.
It's ok, though, we need folks like you pointing out the obvious, if only to reinforce the efforts of people who are actually doing something.
"Just and sound?" Who are you kidding anymore? We have rampant discrimination under the euphemism of "affirmative action," how is that just? We have the largest prison population in the world, and enact policies like No Child Left Behind, costing billions of dollars, that actually outlaw naturally-occurring racial differences in performance. How is that sound?
You people fail, and fail, and fail, yet there is never any accountability. You're like the doomsday cult leader, who keeps pushing the date of the apocalypse further down the road after every earlier prediction passes without incident. What are you defending, other than a system that is transforming our First World countries into those of the Third World?
I'm out educating people about Ron Paul, the one person in American politics right now who can actually affect change of this system. As systems of justice go, representative democracy is a good start, but we need to be constantly refining it. You're serving the role of someone standing there pointing to a car wreck going "A car wrecked!! It WRECKED!!!" while everyone else is going "Thank you very much, Einstein, now get your ass over here and start making a tourniquet." DO something.Originally Posted by danimal
Pointing out that a small percentage of Muslims in a country where Muslims are already a small percentage is the downfall of western civilization is not helping anyone, particularly because it isn't true. Pointing out that the extremists seem to wield disproportionate power is only slightly helpful. Organizing the vote so the majority participates and keeps things "right" (as subjective as that is) is a step in the right direction.
You smack of fear-mongering, exaggeration, and hyperbole. The sources you quote aren't even discrete in their racist agendas, and you are so extreme in the ways you express your views that half the time I think you are just trying to get a rise out of people. You never question the facts you cite that support your position (blacks aren't as intelligent as whites...ignoring the social/educational bias in the study you are citing), but instead accuse people of being blind to the harsh reality of things.
reverse-discrimination actually impacts white people VERY RARELY. The FDNY testing bullshit, etc, really negatively affects such a small percentage of the population, particularly the white population, and the numbers for discrimination against blacks are astronomical. Yet you sit there, persecuted, evidently.
The rest of us want to work on the system and make it better, you want to sit and scream about these "egregious" injustices. I guess all I can say is: have at it, champ, I'm sure you will find like-minded people and glom onto them, so you don't have to expand your mind outside of where you are comfortable. In the meantime, the rest of us are going to try to find a way to exist and coexist that meets our needs while not trampling the needs of others, and vice versa.
Should white Muslims be up in arms because they are white? Or are they attacking white people, because they adhere to Islam.
Also, stop trying to equate "western civilization" with "white people"
I think the fundamental problem with your worldview is summed up in this statement: "large sections of other races hold grudges against whites collectively and will continue to do so against their future children and grandchildren"
What every rational person says is, well, lets do something to show those large sections that their grudges are unfounded, and convince them not to hold all white people responsible for the actions of a people who for the most part have been dead for a generation. If you talk to alot of minorities and ask them if they hate whites, have grudges, etc, they say no of course not. Sure they'll have their stereotypes, but they aren't out to get us and hurt us. Your response is instead of nurturing understanding, to just start having a big dick competition, and GIVING them a reason to hate you, which makes you hate them. You're just perpetuating a cycle of hatred that has NO basis except for major misunderstanding. You say that since SOME minorities dislike white people, ALL white people should band together to become stronger than the minorities, when the much more practical, civil, and productive response would be for all people who understand that there's no reason to hate each other to get together and work to convince people like you that their fear is unfounded. In the 1940s there was alot more racism than there is today, and hopefully in 70 years there will be less, or none at all. Right now the only obstacle is people like you, regardless of their color or creed.
I think I just realised what yoda meant.
fear leads to hate, hate to leads to anger, anger leads to suffering, suffering leads to the dark side.
all that pent up hatred and will lead to the dark side aka dark coloured people taking action.
Do you really propose that European nations go out and attempt to conquer the middle east? There's nothing scientific about "eat or be eaten", a grown elephant is just as safe from a wolf as a tiger. Again, downplaying the slaughter of Native Americans. So there was no choice but to do what was done to them?The flaw among Western people is that today they do not fight for their interests. What happened in the past was simply the law of the jungle, and characteristic of all civilizations at the time: conquer, or be conquered. That law exists today, now and forever, and we ignore it at our peril.
That simply could not have happened. When it came down to force guns won. It also isn't realistic to expect Europe to be taken over by Muslims.Had the White Man been forced out by the Indians, and thus their way of life maintained, Native Americans might have avoided those problems along with controlling the western hemisphere.
It's completely the wrong message to take from what happened to natives of the New World. One could even argue that the lesson is to learn to live with other types of people rather than displacing or killing them, as radical as that sounds.Of course it doesn't, but that isn't the issue. These are words of caution to Europeans to avoid the fate of the Indians.
Fundamental to the flaws in chalupa's and Frood's posts is the reality of biological and genetic racial differences, along with parts of the human psyche that have evolved to make humans help those like themselves and avoid or even harm those unlike themselves. You cannot expect to be effective with policy proposals if on fundamental issues you have incorrect stances. For example, no one should expect me to succeed as an astronomer if I did not think the Earth revolved around the Sun, but that everything revolved around the Earth (the Ptolemaic system).
We are different, and there are a number of ways to recognize this. Partly due to the nature of these differences, and partly just because of the nature of difference creating and/or stoking conflict, this has important consequences for societies that cannot be ignored without dangers.
First, and perhaps the easiest to communicate through this medium of a discussion forum, are the rational grounds. From John Derbyshire, of National Review,
If you don't think that race matters, or that the races differ much, then you will be less likely to mind having immigrants come to your country from all over the world. However, races do differ, and intelligence is one way in which they differ. Should immigration open to those of lower-IQ countries, the mean intelligence of the receiving country will lower over time. Intelligence is largely heritable, so this change would occur despite the best efforts of social policy. But if you don't accept this, then you end up with people searching for other explanations for why races achieve at varying levels. The usual one is to blame white racism. Not only is this just incorrect given the evidence, but it unreasonably stokes resentment against white people. Trying to "tie a tourniquet" when you have the wrong information can end up just hurting other people who are innocent.If a species is divided into separate populations, and those populations are left in reproductive isolation from each other for many generations, they will diverge. If you return after several hundred generations have passed, you will observe that the various traits that characterize individuals of the species are now distributed at different frequencies in the various populations. After a few ten thousands of generations, the divergence of the populations will be so great they can no longer cross-breed; and that is the origin of species. This is Biology 101.
Our species separated into two parts 50, 60, or 70 thousand years ago, depending on which paleoanthropologist you ask. One part remained in Africa, the ancestral homeland. The other crossed into Southwest Asia, then split, and re-split, and re-split, until there were human populations living in near-total reproductive isolation from each other in all parts of the world. This went on for hundreds of generations, causing the divergences we see today. Different physical types, as well as differences in behavior, intelligence, and personality, are exactly what one would expect to observe when scrutinizing these divergent populations.
Beyond the subject of race and intelligence, many organisms, including people, have a scientifically-supported, natural tendency to bond with others like themselves and help them, and to compete with or even harm others unlike themselves. This is called Genetic Similarity Theory. Even in the absence of IQ differences, people of different races will have the urge to compete rather than cooperate, which is of course problematic to say the least for a society.
The call for me to "do something" is already being answered- I am doing something, I'm correcting the orthodoxy. I have to attack the root of the problem if good policy is to emerge. Also, I cannot be blamed for stoking racial animosity when it would exist with or without me. It is a part of us and is a legacy of our evolution. No one should be blamed for it.
For the solid data and its analysis from a race realist perspective, I'd recommend Why Race Matters by Michael Levin, Racial Differences in Intelligence by Richard Lynn, and Race, Evolution, and Behavior by J. Philippe Rushton.
Men and women are different too, how bout we kill all the women? They're different RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
"Beyond the subject of race and intelligence, many organisms, including people, have a scientifically-supported, natural tendency to bond with others like themselves and help them, and to compete with or even harm others unlike themselves. This is called Genetic Similarity Theory. Even in the absence of IQ differences, people of different races will have the urge to compete rather than cooperate, which is of course problematic to say the least for a society."
THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ADVOCATING THAT WE COMPETE WHEN YOU ADMIT THAT COOPERATION IS MORE ADVANTAGEOUS? Once we recognize what we are doing, WE STOP.
By the way, the opposite of divergent evolution is convergent evolution. For the past 4000 years people have been procreating outside of their race, and we're becoming more and more similar.
Last edited by Frood; 03-22-2012 at 02:08 AM.